Hey all,
Looking for some guidance on powering some Johnson ball valves (#VA9104-AGA-3SD) to use as part of a glycol fermenter setup. I've got a BCS 462 on the way (thanks santa!) and want to know if anyone else has used 24vac valves and how you powered them. I've seen one idea that involved a CCTV control box, but they mentioned "24vdc" in the post: http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com/ ... 1e73#p1965
Someone else mentioned that Electronics Salon has a 24Vac 8 channel relay board, but I can not find it in their ebay store:
http://forum.embeddedcc.com/viewtopic.p ... 034f33dc47
Am I looking at using SSR's to power these? These valves take 60 seconds to travel from closed to open. Does that pose a problem with the BCS controlling them?
Thanks for any suggestions!
Tim
Powering 24vac johnson motorized ball valves
Re: Powering 24vac johnson motorized ball valves
Tim,
I found a couple.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-SPDT-Power-Re ... 5d3653581a
And, for a few more bucks, DIN version looks pretty sweet.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Mount- ... 566d0ca764
I'm thinking about changing over to DIN version myself. Didn't know they existed until now.
Dale
I found a couple.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-SPDT-Power-Re ... 5d3653581a
And, for a few more bucks, DIN version looks pretty sweet.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Mount- ... 566d0ca764
I'm thinking about changing over to DIN version myself. Didn't know they existed until now.
Dale
Re: Powering 24vac johnson motorized ball valves
Thanks for the suggestions. I've seen those listings before, but I couldn't determine from the specs that the output was 24vac. What part shows that? The only AC rating I see is "Contact Rating: 277 VAC / 10 Amp". Also, does "Power Supply: 24V DC / 280mA" mean I need a 24vdc transformer to power this? I would definitely want the DIN version.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Re: Powering 24vac johnson motorized ball valves
Whoops, missed the AC part. Don't know that AC "driven" relays even exist in the control environment.
The relay just switches whatever your source is, in this case you'd need a 24VAC transformer to drive your valves anyway.
The advantage of 24VDC relays was suggested for situations where the controlled components (motors/valves) were also 24VDC. The 24VDC just indicates the coil voltage. The actual trigger voltage is usually 5-20 VDC and is either opto-isolated from coil engagement circuit or via Darlington transistors.
BCS "trigger" is 5VDC, relay coil voltage is whatever best suits your control system (in VDC?) and the relay "output" is just the switched input power for your components.
I have 8 channel 12VDC relay switching 12VDC, 110VAC, and 5VDC, and just getting my brain wrapped around all this stuff during my long on-going build.
The relay just switches whatever your source is, in this case you'd need a 24VAC transformer to drive your valves anyway.
The advantage of 24VDC relays was suggested for situations where the controlled components (motors/valves) were also 24VDC. The 24VDC just indicates the coil voltage. The actual trigger voltage is usually 5-20 VDC and is either opto-isolated from coil engagement circuit or via Darlington transistors.
BCS "trigger" is 5VDC, relay coil voltage is whatever best suits your control system (in VDC?) and the relay "output" is just the switched input power for your components.
I have 8 channel 12VDC relay switching 12VDC, 110VAC, and 5VDC, and just getting my brain wrapped around all this stuff during my long on-going build.
Last edited by MrNatural on Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Powering 24vac johnson motorized ball valves
Sounds like these might not be the best choice for this application. Bummer. I've got five of them sitting here. I am going to look into the CCTV control idea a little more before I abandon them. I have a 115vac to 24vac transformer that I used to test the valves. Thanks or the feedback.
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Re: Powering 24vac johnson motorized ball valves
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9qilca646rkb ... H-Uea?dl=0
I posted a PDF of our cooling side control drawing (I believe it's the last file on the bottom) on the link above with our wiring schematic.
BCS outputs to SSR's which outputs to plug in control relays whose contacts control the motorized ball valves.
We used 24VAC motorized ball valves needing form C contacts NO/NC to open and close them and has been working well for us so far.
Hope it helps!
-Joe
I posted a PDF of our cooling side control drawing (I believe it's the last file on the bottom) on the link above with our wiring schematic.
BCS outputs to SSR's which outputs to plug in control relays whose contacts control the motorized ball valves.
We used 24VAC motorized ball valves needing form C contacts NO/NC to open and close them and has been working well for us so far.
Hope it helps!
-Joe
Re: Powering 24vac johnson motorized ball valves
Actually all you need to do is add a wall wart to power the relays.
12VDC Relay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Mount- ... 1e958cb70a
12VDC Wall wart:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Black-DC12V ... 2c8505b9ea
Or, ditch all outlets and wall warts and hard wire this to power BCS:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DC5V-3-8A-2 ... 2ed3eba50d
And this relay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Mount- ... 2ed9ed23d8
12VDC Relay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Mount- ... 1e958cb70a
12VDC Wall wart:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Black-DC12V ... 2c8505b9ea
Or, ditch all outlets and wall warts and hard wire this to power BCS:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DC5V-3-8A-2 ... 2ed3eba50d
And this relay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIN-Rail-Mount- ... 2ed9ed23d8
Re: Powering 24vac johnson motorized ball valves
Guys, thanks for the feedback!
Joe, thanks for sharing such an awesome build! Very well documented. A shame that artwork has to be hidden behind a panel. Also, great to know that 24vac valves can be done. Now I must begin studying your work. I hope you're open to more questions.
MrNatural, these are 24vac valves, so not sure how those relays would make them work since they are dc. Am I missing something? VERY possible.
Again, I greatly appreciate the input.
Tim
Joe, thanks for sharing such an awesome build! Very well documented. A shame that artwork has to be hidden behind a panel. Also, great to know that 24vac valves can be done. Now I must begin studying your work. I hope you're open to more questions.
MrNatural, these are 24vac valves, so not sure how those relays would make them work since they are dc. Am I missing something? VERY possible.
Again, I greatly appreciate the input.
Tim
Re: Powering 24vac johnson motorized ball valves
Yep, could be you're missing it Tim
A relay, any relay, doesn't give a crap what it is switching (within it's rating). My design described above (currently ) is using 12VDC relay (coil) to switch 120VAC, 5VDC and 12VDC.
I think you're getting crossed up on the power for the relay coils versus the power is it switching.
All you need to do, to accomplish what you're trying to do, is decide how to power the relay that is switching the 24VAC from your 120VAC-24VAC transformer you've been using to test your valves.
$5 wall wart will handle 12VDC relay listed. Or eliminate all wall warts and outlets by using 5VDC power supply for BCS and relay module.
I'm (again currently) going to use an old ATX power supply hard-wired for both the 5VDC (BCS) and 12VDC (coil) relay module-no wall warts of outlets in control panel.
Hope I was able to explain this coherently. Maybe someone else can help get you over the hump better?
Dale
A relay, any relay, doesn't give a crap what it is switching (within it's rating). My design described above (currently ) is using 12VDC relay (coil) to switch 120VAC, 5VDC and 12VDC.
I think you're getting crossed up on the power for the relay coils versus the power is it switching.
All you need to do, to accomplish what you're trying to do, is decide how to power the relay that is switching the 24VAC from your 120VAC-24VAC transformer you've been using to test your valves.
$5 wall wart will handle 12VDC relay listed. Or eliminate all wall warts and outlets by using 5VDC power supply for BCS and relay module.
I'm (again currently) going to use an old ATX power supply hard-wired for both the 5VDC (BCS) and 12VDC (coil) relay module-no wall warts of outlets in control panel.
Hope I was able to explain this coherently. Maybe someone else can help get you over the hump better?
Dale
Last edited by MrNatural on Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Powering 24vac johnson motorized ball valves
Ok, now I get it! Thanks Dale. If I just paid attention to the relaying of my eherms I would have saved myself a lot of confusion. Thanks for the simple (and cheap) suggestions. Great way to start the new year!