Wires for sensors & ball valves (also wiring style)

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fallingsky
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Wires for sensors & ball valves (also wiring style)

Post by fallingsky »

Hi folks,
So I am planning on ordering the thermistors and stainless shells from brewers hardware and making my own temperature probes, both to save on cost and so I can run a single continuous wire from each fermenter to the BCS box instead of splicing wires. I wanted to check and make sure that this wire would be appropriate:

http://www.wireandcabletogo.com/Belden- ... tion-Cable

Also was looking into wire to power the motorized ball valves or solenoids. These will be either 12 or 24 VDC most likely, tho could also be 24 VAC. Am I right that since these are simply transmitting power and not data, they do not need to be twisted pair, but shielding is probably still a good idea? If so, I was thinking this type of wire:

http://www.wireandcabletogo.com/Belden- ... rity-Cable

Since I am only using the ball valves for glycol control, I was planning on using spring-return valves with the CR04 wiring type, as I would want everything to be shut if the system lost power. Was wondering if maybe I should run 18/3 wire to the ball valves tho and just not use on of the wires for now. Then it would be ready to go if I ever needed to put a CR02 or CR03 ball valve on there. Does anyone have any negative experience with CR04 wiring set-up, or should I just go with the 18/2? Feedback?
JonW
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Re: Wires for sensors & ball valves (also wiring style)

Post by JonW »

The wire you've specified will work fine. You didn't mention how long the runs are that you are doing. My preference for the temp probes would be some kind of twisted pair wiring.
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oakbarn
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Re: Wires for sensors & ball valves (also wiring style)

Post by oakbarn »

fallingsky wrote:Hi folks,


Since I am only using the ball valves for glycol control, I was planning on using spring-return valves with the CR04 wiring type, as I would want everything to be shut if the system lost power. Was wondering if maybe I should run 18/3 wire to the ball valves tho and just not use on of the wires for now. Then it would be ready to go if I ever needed to put a CR02 or CR03 ball valve on there. Does anyone have any negative experience with CR04 wiring set-up, or should I just go with the 18/2? Feedback?
I would go the 18/3. I do not know how many times I wished I had planned for the future.
fallingsky
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Re: Wires for sensors & ball valves (also wiring style)

Post by fallingsky »

Thanks for the feedback! Longest run I would possibly do would be to run a temperature sensor up to my glycol reservoir up on the roof. That would be about 75 ft I think. The longest run to a fermenter or brite tank would probably be 30-40 feet, with most runs being in the 10-20 ft range. The 22 AWG wire I specified is twisted pair and should be suitable for runs this long, yes?

I am going to need 3 BCS 462s total to cover all my probes, and two of them will be in a box in the "cellar" area of the brewery and one in the brewhouse. One thing that scared me, not sure if maybe I just read something wrong late at night on Brewer's Hardware. This paragraph had me worried that while there are 8 analog inputs, there are only 6 outputs that can be associated with them. Please tell me that the straight on/off outputs can be triggered off of the analog inputs, or I will need 4 BCS462s! Here is the paragraph that got me confused:
Along with the eight temperature sensor inputs, the BCS-462 provides eight 5V discrete inputs, and four web-based user inputs. All inputs can trigger controller responses. 18 low-current 5V discrete outputs are provided for relay control. Six of the outputs can be controlled by PWM, differentially by a temperature input, or under complete PID control. The remaining 12 outputs provide on/off control.
And yeah, I was thinking of running 18/3 just in case, definitely been burned by my own short-sightedness before as well!
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Re: Wires for sensors & ball valves (also wiring style)

Post by JonW »

fallingsky wrote:Thanks for the feedback! Longest run I would possibly do would be to run a temperature sensor up to my glycol reservoir up on the roof. That would be about 75 ft I think. The longest run to a fermenter or brite tank would probably be 30-40 feet, with most runs being in the 10-20 ft range. The 22 AWG wire I specified is twisted pair and should be suitable for runs this long, yes?

I am going to need 3 BCS 462s total to cover all my probes, and two of them will be in a box in the "cellar" area of the brewery and one in the brewhouse. One thing that scared me, not sure if maybe I just read something wrong late at night on Brewer's Hardware. This paragraph had me worried that while there are 8 analog inputs, there are only 6 outputs that can be associated with them. Please tell me that the straight on/off outputs can be triggered off of the analog inputs, or I will need 4 BCS462s! Here is the paragraph that got me confused:
Along with the eight temperature sensor inputs, the BCS-462 provides eight 5V discrete inputs, and four web-based user inputs. All inputs can trigger controller responses. 18 low-current 5V discrete outputs are provided for relay control. Six of the outputs can be controlled by PWM, differentially by a temperature input, or under complete PID control. The remaining 12 outputs provide on/off control.
And yeah, I was thinking of running 18/3 just in case, definitely been burned by my own short-sightedness before as well!
For the distances you are looking at, you should definitely make sure you are using twisted pair wiring. 22 AWG is fine. Many people use CAT5 data cable and split the 4 pairs off to run 4 temp probes. You might want to look at that.

In the 3.x series firmware version of the BCS, you were limited to 6 temperature controlled outputs. In the new 4.x series firmware, you can run 8 outputs associated with a temp probe.

Since you are using 3 BCS units, you might want to keep an eye on this thread: http://forum.embeddedcc.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2755
That is a BCS desktop application that I've written that currently only supports 1 BCS unit, but once the 1.0 version is finished, it will support up to 8 BCS units and allow you to trigger events across the multiple BCS's.
fallingsky
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Re: Wires for sensors & ball valves (also wiring style)

Post by fallingsky »

Thanks for pointing me to that thread and I will definitely be watching it with baited breath. As for the whole "running 4 temp sensors in one Cat5e cable" idea, yes I had thought about that, but what do folks do when it comes to break up the run of 4 and run the individual twisted pairs to the temp probes? Do people run that into some sort of junction box and run individual shielded cables to the probes, just strip the outer shielding and run naked twisted pairs to the probes, or something totally different. I had read some stuff saying splicing on data cables was the devil's work, so that is why I was thinking of running individual cables for each sensor. Somebody want to enlighten me and save me some money? Cheers!
JonW
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Re: Wires for sensors & ball valves (also wiring style)

Post by JonW »

Yes, dealing with terminating cat5 cable can be a PIA. I use a 110 punch tool and 110 splice blocks for terminating. Google "110 splice block" to see what I'm referring to.
fallingsky
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Re: Wires for sensors & ball valves (also wiring style)

Post by fallingsky »

Does anyone see any problem with using this wire for powering a bunch of 12VDC ball valves? It is half the price of the belden wire I previously linked to.

http://www.wireandcabletogo.com/Low-Vol ... Spool.html

edit: I mean is is half the price of the 18/3 version actually. I only need 2 conductors for my setup but was considering future proofing per some recommendations here.


Thanks!
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Re: Wires for sensors & ball valves (also wiring style)

Post by JonW »

That will work just fine.
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Re: Wires for sensors & ball valves (also wiring style)

Post by BrunDog »

Maybe me being anal, but I don't think Cat5 should be used open in industrial environments - its too flimsy. I would find a 22 AWG stranded twisted set in a legit jacket. The cost difference is not that big and it can handle some bending, etc.

-BD
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