Question about relay to ball valve wiring (again)

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fallingsky
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Question about relay to ball valve wiring (again)

Post by fallingsky »

Okay, putting one of my control boxes together finally for a glycol control system, and realizing that I think I misread some of your previous answers. This box will house 2 BCS units with the full complement of 8 temp probes each.

I am using this relay board:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00M1I ... MUS055KMW5

And these type of ball valves with CR04 valves:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Y42 ... ge_o00_s00

I have two of these 110 AC outlets to power the wall wart BCS power supplies that came with the boards:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MO8 ... ia_nav_t_2

And this is my 12V DC power supply:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GI5 ... ge_o07_s00


So the CR04 valve has a red wire (pwr or +?) and a green wire (gnd or -?). The relay output has 3 terminals for each signal. NC, C1-16, and NO. On the input side there are IN 1-16 with a single GND for each set of eight inputs on either side, and then the common power supply terminals VCC and GND. My 12V DC power supply has 3 output terminals, NC, -, and +. So here are my questions. Forgive me sounding dumb or re-asking questions you fine folks have previously answered. I think I know the answers to some, maybe even most of these, but I just want to be absolutely sure that I have everything right.

1. Do I connect the + on the power supply to VCC and the - to the GND terminals in the middle bottom of the relay board? NC on the power supply stands for "not connected" in this case, not "normally closed", correct?

2. Someone earlier mentioned making sure that "you tie the power supply grounds together at a common ground point". Since my two AC outlets have aux output terminals, if I simply run my 3 prong AC cord into the box and pass through each of those two with N, G, L and then terminate at the DC power supply, would this meet the requirement of having all the grounds tied together?

3. Here's an obvious one, but I'm paranoid so gonna ask anyway. OUT0-OUT7 on each board are wired to IN1-16 on the relay and each of the GND terminals next to the IN terminals on the relays gets connected to one of the black GND terminals on the BCS board, right?

4. And this is the one I am confused about: How to wire the ball valves to the relay outputs. What exactly are the C1-C16 terminals for? I know I want the red wire hooked up to the NO terminal to get my valve to open when the relay is triggered, but I was thinking that each green wire would go to one of the C1-C16 terminals before and now in re-reading JonW's answer to one of my questions I think I was wrong and they actually need to be all bunched together and connected to the ground (or -) on the DC power supply. I am using terminal blocks I can jumper them together, but then do I have wires going in the the - terminal on the power supply both from the ground on the power input into the relay and the return wire from the ball valve? Or do I run the green wires bunched together from the ball valves (after connecting them into one wire via the terminal blocks) back into the GND terminal on the relay board next to VCC? Is there a difference or is that terminal and the - on the power supply? And the only terminal that I am using on the relay outputs is the NO?

Okay I think that is it for now. Thanks!
JonW
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Re: Question about relay to ball valve wiring (again)

Post by JonW »

fallingsky wrote:1. Do I connect the + on the power supply to VCC and the - to the GND terminals in the middle bottom of the relay board? NC on the power supply stands for "not connected" in this case, not "normally closed", correct?
You are correct on both of these.
fallingsky wrote:2. Someone earlier mentioned making sure that "you tie the power supply grounds together at a common ground point". Since my two AC outlets have aux output terminals, if I simply run my 3 prong AC cord into the box and pass through each of those two with N, G, L and then terminate at the DC power supply, would this meet the requirement of having all the grounds tied together?
No, you need to tie the 12V power supply (-) terminal to the BCS (-) terminal. You then also need to tie the BCS (-) terminal to your AC ground (G).
fallingsky wrote:3. Here's an obvious one, but I'm paranoid so gonna ask anyway. OUT0-OUT7 on each board are wired to IN1-16 on the relay and each of the GND terminals next to the IN terminals on the relays gets connected to one of the black GND terminals on the BCS board, right?
Correct.
fallingsky wrote:4. And this is the one I am confused about: How to wire the ball valves to the relay outputs. What exactly are the C1-C16 terminals for? I know I want the red wire hooked up to the NO terminal to get my valve to open when the relay is triggered, but I was thinking that each green wire would go to one of the C1-C16 terminals before and now in re-reading JonW's answer to one of my questions I think I was wrong and they actually need to be all bunched together and connected to the ground (or -) on the DC power supply. I am using terminal blocks I can jumper them together, but then do I have wires going in the the - terminal on the power supply both from the ground on the power input into the relay and the return wire from the ball valve? Or do I run the green wires bunched together from the ball valves (after connecting them into one wire via the terminal blocks) back into the GND terminal on the relay board next to VCC? Is there a difference or is that terminal and the - on the power supply? And the only terminal that I am using on the relay outputs is the NO?

Okay I think that is it for now. Thanks!
The three terminals on the relay are NO, C and NC. The C connection is the "common" connection. You'll need to feed the power supply (+) feed into that for each relay. When the relay is not energized, the C connection is then feed back out to the NC (normally closed) terminal. When you trigger the relay from the BCS, you will then get the C connection feed to the NO (normally open) terminal on the relay - and this is where your valve will be connected so that it energizes. So, for each relay, you'll need to provide power input to the C terminal and the valve will be on the NO terminal and you'll not use the NC terminals.

The green wire on the valves (-) will need to either be bunched together or tied to a terminal block which is then connected to the (-) side of the 12V power supply.
fallingsky
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Re: Question about relay to ball valve wiring (again)

Post by fallingsky »

Thanks for your response JonW. Still confused a bit, so let me ask for some clarification.
No, you need to tie the 12V power supply (-) terminal to the BCS (-) terminal. You then also need to tie the BCS (-) terminal to your AC ground (G).
What exactly do you mean by the (-) terminal on the BCS? One of the GND terminals?
You'll need to feed the power supply (+) feed into that for each relay.
Aha! That makes sense. I guess that I thought the VCC/GND terminals provided the power supply to all the individual relays, and that was my error in thinking (or one of them anyway). What would you recommend to use in terms of hardware to combine 16 (or 8) 18 gauge wires into a single one for splitting out the + off the power supply to the C terminals on the relay (and of course also doing the reverse and combining the - power wires connected to the green wires on the ball valves from 16 (or 8) to 1 in order to connect it back to the - terminal on the power supply)?
JonW
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Re: Question about relay to ball valve wiring (again)

Post by JonW »

fallingsky wrote:What exactly do you mean by the (-) terminal on the BCS? One of the GND terminals?
Sorry. Yes. For DC wiring negative (-) and ground are used interchangeably.
fallingsky wrote:Aha! That makes sense. I guess that I thought the VCC/GND terminals provided the power supply to all the individual relays, and that was my error in thinking (or one of them anyway). What would you recommend to use in terms of hardware to combine 16 (or 8) 18 gauge wires into a single one for splitting out the + off the power supply to the C terminals on the relay (and of course also doing the reverse and combining the - power wires connected to the green wires on the ball valves from 16 (or 8) to 1 in order to connect it back to the - terminal on the power supply)?
The VCC/GND terminals supply the actual power that powers the relays and has nothing to do with the NC/C/NO terminals. Those terminals are isolated and can be fed with anything (within their stated limits). In my system, I have a couple of those boards and some are feeding 12V to ball valves and other devices while another one of the boards has 110V being switched for pumps and other valves.

For wiring it up, you can get as detailed or simple as you want. You can be as simple as running individual wires to the relays and joining them with a wire nut or you can get a common terminal strip to feed each relay.
fallingsky
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Re: Question about relay to ball valve wiring (again)

Post by fallingsky »

Is this the type of terminal block I would want to use perhaps? I definitely have some space limitations in my box so this would be good if appropriate.

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/2051178
JonW
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Re: Question about relay to ball valve wiring (again)

Post by JonW »

That's a pricey unit, but will work fine.
Chas
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Re: Question about relay to ball valve wiring (again)

Post by Chas »

Falling Sky, I just was going through my valve build out too. Jon is right on almost everything I experienced. Thanks Jon it helped me troubleshoot my design.
FWIW, I also have consulted a EE just in case; but trail and error always works for me.
I took one bcs-462 gnd to my ground din AC or Green terminal block tied together with jumper screws, using a Green wire,
I took a green wire from the Green Block to either of the relay board gnd terminals.
I took blue wires from the bcs-462 to my Electronic-salon 8 DPDT 12v DC board, connecting to inputs IN 1-8.
I went Double Pole Double Throw (DPDT) in case I can tie two valves to the same relay.

But if you have a 16 relay board you will be fine too. Here is where I'd change what you are doing.
I started using output 7 only because I wanted to option to control my pump speed using the Pulse Way Modulation (faster or slower) in Output 1 & 2.
Only if I needed during my sparging; In my old RIMS system with manual valves I'd just partially closed the valve.
But with electric it is either all open or all closed. Sorry, I digress.

My valves have a simple + & -.
I have 2 valve terminal blocks, 1 RED and 1 BLACK with 10 DINs each, each block has all 10 terminals, 8 valves and to extras jumpered together.

On the Red Block, I red wired from the C control 1-8 to RED DIN block terminals 1-8.
I wired up the DC 12v + (red) to red block terminal 9.
Here is where I went with a slight variant of what Jon suggests.
I red wired red terminal 10 back to the 8 DPDT relay board's VCC to drive it.

On the Black block, I used Speaker wire (silver striped) one each to valve 1-8.
I wired up the DC 12v - (black) to terminal 9,
I took a second bcs-462 gnd to my Black valve block terminal 10,

Then I wired each valve + cable (non silver striped) to the relay board NO 1-8.
Connected the + + - valve wires to each valve accordingly.
Once any output is excited:
In my case Click Output 7, IN 1 is excited, NC 1 normally closed changes to NO 1 normally open and C control 1 is exited.
C1 goes to the Red block Terminal 1 and the valve fires.
I tested and each valve fires independently and properly.

Good luck and happy automation.
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