OK, what do I need??

[don.fief@comcast.net]

I am an experienced homebrewer, and now it is time to begin automating it... I have decided to go with the BCS-460 controller. I want to control the mash temp to start. I really don't want to drill a hole in my nice Blichman mashing tun, so I would like to just get another lid for it, and drill that... I think I am going to wind up rinning hot water from my HLT thrrough the mash in a copper tubing spiral to heat the mash. Does that sound doable? Can I control the gas burner under the HLT also with the 460? What will I need? I guess I am asking for a shopping list... Sorry... Do you guys have a pump you recommend that can handle the hot water? I am considering using a long thermowell from brewershardware.com along with a temp sensor down the middle of the mash...

I also considered using some titanium aquarium heaters to warm the mash directly. Some have external thermostats that can be removed so I can cycle the power to the heater to adjust heat. That would probably require a circulation pump as well, but this time for the wort, instead of water. Sounds like it might be hard to clean vs running water inside copper... Many questions. Sorry.

Don

[Broph]

I use a March Pump http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/marc ... -plug.html in my "AleForce1" system http://secure.nps1.net/bs/index.php/bre ... rewstation . I use a hot water heating element that is in the bottom of my RIMS module from Stout Tanks and Kettles http://conical-fermenter.com/products/mash-tuns/), although I wished that I ended up purchasing one from Brewers Hardware instead. I also use bucket heaters - http://www.amazon.com/MARSHALLTOWN-Prem ... 033&sr=8-1 to heat up the Mashtun and Hot liq. tanks. The temp probes I use are from Brewers Hardware : http://www.brewershardware.com/BCS-Tri- ... e-Sensors/ for the RIMS module, and http://www.brewershardware.com/12-Tempe ... Cable.htmlfor the mashtun and hot. liq tanks. I just place them inside the kettles, although at some point I will just remove the analog Blichmann temp probe and use a compression fitting in the hole that they punched out in kettle. Because it's still cold out and I brew in the garage I made up some jackets out of Reflectix insulation for my Hot Liq. Tank, Mashtun and RIMS module to help the heating sources efficiently keep my temps where they need to be. This gives me the same efficiency that I was getting with orange coolers before I upgraded to Blichmann SS kettles, otherwise I was blowing fuses trying to keep everything hot.

[don.fief@comcast.net]

Wow, thanks a ton for all the good info!

Don

[don.fief@comcast.net]

I use a March Pump http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/marc ... -plug.html in my "AleForce1" system http://secure.nps1.net/bs/index.php/bre ... rewstation . I use a hot water heating element that is in the bottom of my RIMS module from Stout Tanks and Kettles http://conical-fermenter.com/products/mash-tuns/), although I wished that I ended up purchasing one from Brewers Hardware instead. I also use bucket heaters - http://www.amazon.com/MARSHALLTOWN-Prem ... 033&sr=8-1 to heat up the Mashtun and Hot liq. tanks. The temp probes I use are from Brewers Hardware : http://www.brewershardware.com/BCS-Tri- ... e-Sensors/ for the RIMS module, and http://www.brewershardware.com/12-Tempe ... Cable.htmlfor the mashtun and hot. liq tanks. I just place them inside the kettles, although at some point I will just remove the analog Blichmann temp probe and use a compression fitting in the hole that they punched out in kettle. Because it's still cold out and I brew in the garage I made up some jackets out of Reflectix insulation for my Hot Liq. Tank, Mashtun and RIMS module to help the heating sources efficiently keep my temps where they need to be. This gives me the same efficiency that I was getting with orange coolers before I upgraded to Blichmann SS kettles, otherwise I was blowing fuses trying to keep everything hot.

What heating element do you use? What brand and wattage? I would like to order as many of the pieces of equipment as I can at once so that I may get a good start on assembly when it arrives...

[Broph]

I use a water heater element similiar to http://www.lowes.com/pd_26357-135-69003 ... facetInfo= . 4500w 240v . Since I am using 120v the wattage is cut in half. It does the job though. It has a 1" thread to screw the element into the RIMS tube.

Water heater element and triclover fitting

RIMS heating element

RIMS_HeatingElement.jpg (159.2 KiB) Viewed 14983 times

Element screwed into triclover fitting

RIMS_HeatingElementb.jpg (120.99 KiB) Viewed 14983 times

I purchased the RIMS module that is available at http://conical-fermenter.com/products/mash-tuns/ . While it's nice the input and outputs cannot pivot (like the one from Brewers Hardware). The RIMS module diameter is 2" wide. I refer to it as the "Bazooka" because it is 25" long. This RIMS module has mounting brackets.

RIMS-Module.jpg (22.86 KiB) Viewed 14983 times

I would also recommend taking a look at the RIMS module available @ Brewers Hardware http://www.brewershardware.com/Tri-Clov ... -Tube.html . I like how it allows you to pivot the top and bottom outlets to any direction, because of the tri-clover fitting that connects the two tubes. It's RIMS diameter is 1.5" and 16" long according to their site. This RIMS module does not have mounting brackets.

Either site might take a little time to receive... I think it took me 2 months to receive mine after I ordered it, but it was worth it. Very easy to clean and setup.

[don.fief@comcast.net]

Will that element fit into the RIMS module from Brewers Hardware since thier module is smaller in length and diameter?

I see from the diagram of your RIMS module there are two 1/2" NF-NPT fittings one for liquid sensor and one for thermocouple. DO you use both of those? Do the both have thrmocouples attached and hooked to the BCS-460? It would seem that I would want one in the center of the RIMS and one in the Mash Tun...

Don

[gbrewer]

Don,

Are you seeking an electric system or an all gas system? You can design your system using the BCS460 on either system. You mentioned running hot water through your MT from your HLT. This is similar to a HERMS system (in reverse). Usually you will see brewers circulating the mash through the HLT by way of the copper coils and then back into the MT. What available power do you have?

I currently use a RIMS system similar to what Broph was describing but I purchased mine from Brewershardware.com. http://www.brewershardware.com/Tri-Clov ... -Tube.html . I am really pleased with this unit. I have used the Rims tube on a Brutus 10 style design as well as a 3 tier which I put together last year. All of my brewing systems were designed around the BCS460. See pictures below.





I would caution you from relying on a long temperature probe stuck into your mash tun. The issue has to do with heat pockets causing by the grains. You will not get very accurate temperature results. Most folks rely on taking heat measurements from the recirculating mash nearest the rims tube.

This is what I would purchase if I only want to start out regulating my Mash Tun using a RIMS tube by way of the BCS460.

http://www.brewershardware.com/Tri-Clov ... -Tube.html
http://www.brewershardware.com/TC15F10NPSCOV.html (******OPTIONAL - A NICE BUT EXPENSIVE WAY TO HIDE YOUR HEATING ELEMENT)
If you don't purchase the above cover, you can purchase an outdoor electrical box and cover to make this work ($14)
http://morebeer.com/view_product/17311/ ... ewing_Pump
http://www.embeddedcc.com/index.php/pro ... y-40a.html

For the temperature probe there are a couple of options.
My preferred method for the rims tube only
http://www.brewershardware.com/TPTC15BCS5.html
The down side on this method is you are locked into a Tri-Clover temperature probe if you decide to use this elsewhere.


Other method for the RIMS tube
http://www.embeddedcc.com/index.php/pro ... tting.html
http://www.brewershardware.com/4-Temper ... S-460.html
(If you buy the sensor on the Embedded ECC page you will not be using the compression fitting that comes with the sensor - it is the wrong size for the RIMS tube)

You can also purchase your sensors with the M8 disconnect fittings.

Don't forget the BCS

http://www.embeddedcc.com/index.php/pro ... ystem.html

You can purchase the water heater element at Home Depot or Lows. It depends on your voltage. You will also need miscellaneous wiring and a power cord for the heating element. Some people would design this with an override switch and indicator bulb.

You can also accomplish what you are asking by only using gas. If you are using a false bottom in your mash tun you could recirculate by way of the same listed pump. Essentially you would remove the wort from underneath the false bottom, recirculate through the pump and return to the top.
You would need the following

gas valve with appropriate hardware
temperature probe
compression fitting
bcs460 or bcs462
Relay
120v to 24 volt transformer (depending on gas valve)
stainless steel T (for temperature probe)
Overide or selection switch
indicator lamp
Propane or Natural Gas hose
Misc wiring

I have used the gas method and the RIMS method. I am currently using the RIMS method which I prefer. The part lists are fairly basic. I am sure you could add to them depending on what you want to accomplish. I didn't include control boxes, screws, or other odds and ends.

[Broph]

Don,

Without out getting too long winded, as you can see between Gbrewer and my system, it all depends on what you want to do - it's your system... This is good and bad when you are trying to get started because you are left with alot of options. This is a "feature" of the BCS because they really leave it up to you and don't require you to purchase any proprietary equipment like other controllers. In my system I only wanted to control the hot liq tank, mashtun and RIMS module electronically. With the BCS I can do that and also control the pump. For the boil kettle I decided I wanted to use gas. There are several people in our local club that are using the BCS-460 as the heart of their systems and can't imaging brewing any other way.

The size of the heating element really depends on what you are going to install it in. You can get elements in different lengths. At one point when I was using a homemade copper pipe for a RIMS module I was using a element that wasn't as long. In the almost 3 years that I have been using my system I haven't had any problems in how I place my probes. I have temp probes in the RIMS module and mashtun and they are both controlled separately. If you look at the diagram from my previous post you'll see from left (top) to right (bottom): Thermocouple (where you'd put the temp probe), Wort Out (the wort will be traveling out of this port and back into your mashtun), Wort In (wort enters this port from your pump and mashtun spigot), and 1" NSP (where the heating element is installed). The module is mounted vertically with the Thermocouple and Wort Out on the top. If you look at the picture of my system you can get an idea on how it is mounted. I would also add that compared to my copper rims tube that I was using before, the Tri-clover fittings on both RIMS modules are a plus when it comes down to cleaning after a brewsesssion.

Either module you decide on will be a good choice, as both come with most of the hardware needed (for using their module) other than the temp probe and element. The biggest reason why I didn't purchase the Brewers Hardware module (and I have purchased a lot of stuff from them) was the way you order the RIMS module in his store.

Tom

[ksl177]

Don,
Pick a direction, RIMS or HERMS, then you're 50% of the way there.

If you're already using a full gas system RIMS will cause you to go partially electric.

I personally use HERMS and am quite happy with it. I recirc my mash through a coil in my HLT back into my MT, and use the 460 to control the temp in the HLT. I measure temp at the output of the HERMS coil to the MLT for a simple reason. If everything flowing INTO my mash is X, then the hotest my mash will get is X. I just need to make sure the wort is thin enough and properly channeled (rice hulls) to make sure it works through.

I also fire my MT during ramp ups for step mashes.

As for what you need? it depends on what gas burners you have, if they're high pressure, or low, and just how complicated you want to get things.

At a minimum, to automate the MT and the HLT for gas you're looking at 2x combination gas valves, one (or 2x 110v to 24v Transformers depending on wiring) a few switches, and a SSR board.

[don.fief@comcast.net]

Thanks to everyone for all of the help and the pictures. I have decided to go with the RIMS module from Brewers Hardware and use a combo system, gas to fire the HLT, and do the initial warming of the Mashing Tun, then electric to maintain the temp in the Mashing Tun.

GBrewer, where did you get that nice 3 tier stand? Did you build it?

It will be a while before it is built, but I am sure I will have more questions as I go...

Don