Simple 460 Build

[scribble]

I am looking for a simple way to control my RIMS temperature and maybe have some expandability later. I was about to drop $575 on the Blichmann Tower of Power controller that really has no expandability and I thought if I could install a BCS 460 to do the same thing for less, why not?

I have a three kettle RIMS system with three Blichmann burners running off propane and two march pumps.

All I really want to do for now is control the burner on my mash tun and monitor temperatures from a sensor mounted into a "T" after my pump. It would be nice to be able to plug in a control panel then plug my pumps into the control panel and have manual switches for the pumps. I doubt I even need the BCS 460 to control the pumps for now, but who knows in the future. I would also like to make it wireless so that I do not have to plug in a laptop or run a cable across my house every time I brew.

I have some electrical experience and I can build a computer, but I have zero knowledge in automation.

I guess my first question is can I do this for less than $575? If so any guidance with what I need to make this work would be much appreciated.

Thank you,
Andy

[scribble]

So, I've been reading and things are starting to make more sense. I am working on a parts list so that I can see how much this will cost.

I want to automate one burner with a temperature sensor. My burner is a high pressure Blichmann floor burner on the extension legs. I have all my burners set up on independant tanks. I want to convert the burner to low pressure so that it can handle the cheaper honeywell valves.

So far I know that I need.

1 BCS 460 $179.95
1 Enclosure 12 x 12 x 8? Nema 4? $100?
1 Honeywell VR8300A3500 $72.95
1 Honeywell Q314A4586 Pilot Burner $17.95
1 36" Thermocouple $4.04
1 25A SSR $8
1 24V transformer $26.5
1 Temperature Sensor $21
I would like to get some HOA switches to switch the pumps but not hook them up to the BCS 460 yet.

I also need to change my burner to low pressure
1 Low Pressure orifice $7
1 Low Pressure regulator $28.95

Am I on the right track? So far that's $466 without getting any plugs, wireless, switches etc...

[JonW]

You look to be on the right track. There are ways to save money though. You don't necessarily need a $100 NEMA enclosure, but if you really feel that you're going to be building that into a full brewery control panel down the road, then it could be well spent. There are $10 enclosure that can do the same thing. For the gas, you can also get a $20 valve instead of the complete Honeywell system. However, there are many safeties built into the HW system that the cheaper valves don't have. I use the cheap valves, but my rule is that I am always present at the brew rig when burners are firing on and off.

The initial investment always looks big, but the capabilities you get with it are big also. Stand alone temp controllers would cost you more and they don't do as good of a job integrating and controlling like a BCS does.

Once you see how easy it is to automate the temp control, you'll quickly add your pump(s) to the list of controlling also. Fortunately, to add more items like that, all you need is an additional relay.

[scribble]

You look to be on the right track. There are ways to save money though. You don't necessarily need a $100 NEMA enclosure, but if you really feel that you're going to be building that into a full brewery control panel down the road, then it could be well spent. There are $10 enclosure that can do the same thing. For the gas, you can also get a $20 valve instead of the complete Honeywell system. However, there are many safeties built into the HW system that the cheaper valves don't have. I use the cheap valves, but my rule is that I am always present at the brew rig when burners are firing on and off.

The initial investment always looks big, but the capabilities you get with it are big also. Stand alone temp controllers would cost you more and they don't do as good of a job integrating and controlling like a BCS does.

Once you see how easy it is to automate the temp control, you'll quickly add your pump(s) to the list of controlling also. Fortunately, to add more items like that, all you need is an additional relay.

I want to walk away from my gas valves so that extra money I feel like is well spent.

Where would one get a $10 enclosure? I really don't think I need a weather resistant one. I will be plugged into a gfci. Anyway I like the idea of building it all in a cheap enclosure, then maybe upgrading once I get everything like I want it. Would I need purchase a SSR with a heatsink if I am using a plastic enclosure?

Thanks for the reply. The next thing I need to figure out are switches and also a way to be able to disconnect the temperature gauge from the enclosure so it can stay screwed into the "T" after my pump.

Andy

[JonW]

Look for alarm panel enclosures. Several places have them new for $25, but I've seen them here and there (ebay, Craigslist, etc.) for $10.

You don't need a heatsink on your SSR if you aren't doing PWM with it. If it is simply being used to turn something on/off, it will be fine.

[scribble]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Honeywell-a ... 19df979168

Like that? It looks like it's 12 x 14 x 3"

If I want to have my water heated up and ready when I wake up in the morning will running a pilot all night long outside work, or would some sort of spark igniter be more ideal?

Thanks again,
Andy

[scribble]

JonW,

I think I have my switches figured out. I found a nice diagram you made on another thread and I wanted to make sure I'm understanding it correctly.

Here's a little diagram on using the On/Off/Auto switch to switch power to the SSR.
I prefer it this way as then you are only running the high voltage to the SSR and all other switching is low voltage.

DC Ground (-) gets connected to BCS ground leads
DC Power (5V +) gets connected to +5VDC
BCS-460 D-out (5V +) is one of the Discrete Outputs. (For some reason in my mind I kept thinking this was one of the Dins because in the wiki it talks about them being used for switches.)

You could grab any DC wall wort you have laying around and attach it to the 5V and Ground leads and you'd be in business to control everything manually. If you're already wiring switches how I put on the diagram, then you've already tied all the 5V (manual input side) and ground leads together. Because of this, you only have to hook two wires to it from the wall wart and all of your switches would be working for manual operation. Also, the wall wort doesn't have to be 5V since the SSR's can take 5-30 V DC.

If you are putting a bunch of manual control switches in the front of a control panel, wiring them low voltage will be much easier (and safer). You can use smaller switches that are rated for less current and the wire to hook it all up will be much smaller, flexible and easier to work with. Because the SSR's are doing all the high voltage switching, I cannot see any reason you would want to run additional switches with high voltage.

So in order for the controlled device to work from the switch in manual mode if the BCS craps out you can hook up any DC wall wort and connect it to the +5VDC and the BCS ground lead.

Do I have my head wrapped around that?

Thanks a million JonW. I'm starting to get confident that I can actually pull this off.
Andy

[JonW]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Honeywell-a ... 19df979168

Like that? It looks like it's 12 x 14 x 3"

If I want to have my water heated up and ready when I wake up in the morning will running a pilot all night long outside work, or would some sort of spark igniter be more ideal?

Thanks again,
Andy

That panel looks fine. It really comes down to how much you need to put in it.

I suggest you use a "hot surface igniter" style system. I've used standing pilots and spark igniters and they each have their issues.

Can't say I endorse having using gas unattended though.

[JonW]

So in order for the controlled device to work from the switch in manual mode if the BCS craps out you can hook up any DC wall wort and connect it to the +5VDC and the BCS ground lead.

Do I have my head wrapped around that?

Correct.

[scribble]

Ok, I'm hoping to start some ordering soon. I am confused about the changes I need to make in order to use a hot surface ignitor.

Honeywell Standard Dual Direct Ignition Gas Valve - 1/2" x 3/4" $99.95
Honeywell Hot surface igniter $25.89

Here are the two that I found with a quick search. The valve is 24V and will be connected from the SSR
The hot surface ignitor is 120 so I will give that a different power source, but does it need it's own SSR or does the Honeywell valve control it?
Also I'm assuming I still install the thermocouple just instead of in the pilot flame it gets installed next to the hot surface ignitor.

I promise I will give you a break from questions soon :O)

Andy