If you look at just the cost of the PID's and timer, yes the cost difference is basically a wash, since the timer is $42.32. In my "brew rig" calculation, I was also considering that I would have to purchase 2 extra SSR's and heatsinks for the pumps with the BCS system, plus an outlet to go in the box for the BCS, etc. This also was based on my two boxes concept designed above where the BCS would live in a separate enclosure from the brew panel so that I wouldn't have to move it to switch between brew and ferment mode, which would be what I'd do if I go the BCS route. There's also the added cost of the cabling to connect data signals from the brew or ferment panel back to the BCS box and associated interconnects... My spreadsheet has all the parts needed for both systems, and that's a total system parts difference based on my setup for each.oakbarn wrote: The BCS 460 is $179, the 462 is $279. You will need to buy 4 PIDs for the BCS 460 and 6 PIDs for the BCS 462 to break even. You will still likely need SSRs for the Aubrins PIDs to control a heating source so that is a wash. You would likely need an enclosure for either the BCS or PIDs.
3 PIDs will cost you $139. The Timer ?. The BCS is only $40 more less the cost of the Timer, not $200.
So with your PID setup, it was only a pain because of the way you had it configured, right?
My brewing process right now is to print out my recipe sheet at the start of the day. I take measurements throughout the day and annotate them in the appropriate boxes on my page. Everything's laid out from top to bottom on the sheet, and I just work through in order. If a box is empty, that means I need to take that measurement next. It doesn't keep track of the minute by minute variations, but the point of either of these systems is that those will be fairly miniscule anyway. Yes, it means a little more interaction on my part, but that's a part of the process I'm already used to. Even if I get a BCS, I'll still keep printing the recipe sheet and logging the data, then filing it in my brew binder in order. That way I can go back and review the beers I've made, and see how they progressed on different attempts, etc.
Again, I can absolutely see the benefit of the data logging for the fermentation processes, there's no doubt there, since that's a non-interactive process where you wake up in the morning and have no clue what happened for the last 8 hours, for instance.
I guess I don't see the inherent issue with one PID controlling one item independent of anything else. That's how my BCS system as designed would work, too. The HLT PID only cares what the HLT temp is. The mash recirculates through the HERMS in the HLT maintaining that same temp, while constantly filtering so that I get super clear wort. For mashout, again, the HLT PID only sees one temp input. The BK is the same, in that once I transfer the wort in, it starts out at 100% duty cycle until close to boil, then it turns down.
Here is one of the only advantages I'm seeing right now to a BCS system for my brew day process. Instead of an alarm going off indicating that the system is about to boil, and I have to push a button to turn the duty cycle down, the system would still send the alarm but automatically adjust the duty cycle as well.
You keep mentioning the alarm as if I'm overlooking it. What does the alarm do differently than the PID and timer alarm circuits do?
What about when the software developers decide to change the way something works? Like the temp averaging thing you were using prior to firmware v4, for instance. Now you have to go and rework all your processes because somebody else decided how you should use your system. Granted, a PID system is much simpler to start with, but maybe that's why I'm drawn to it - because of the simplicity.
As to recalling recipes, there are only 2 beers that I make repeatedly as my go-to have on tap beers. The rest of the time I'm trying something new out anyway. So, that would save some time the once a month I brew those, I guess, but the rest of the time I'd still have to configure a new recipe on the BCS, or enter timer and temp values on the PID rig so to me that's basically a wash.
You're right the BCS is way cooler. Especially if I buy a TW700 and set it in the panel, which would eliminate needing to drag the computer into the brew area for brew days and find somewhere it won't get wet. But I'm not building a brewing rig for the cool factor. I'm building it for brewing. My buddies are more than happy to help drink my beer, but nobody's ever come over for more than one brew day. Maybe a bling factor brew rig would change that, I don't know, but I'm not going to count on it.
If I never ever use those PID's, then oh well. When I'm looking at $2.5-3k for the whole system, the extra $100 is really negligible.