Thinking of getting a Jacketed Fermenter

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oakbarn
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Thinking of getting a Jacketed Fermenter

Post by oakbarn »

I am thinking of getting a Jacketed fermenter with two zones (one in the cone). I have figured out how to have chilled Glycol with a small Freezer and have a BCS 462 to accomplish my Fermentation Schedule. Can anyone give me guidance on this. How cold is the Glycol? I would assume Hystersis Control of two pumps? Or do you have the Glycol at a set temp (Fermentation Temp) with Hystersis to control my Gycol Freezer Chiller and just pump 100% of the time?
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Re: Thinking of getting a Jacketed Fermenter

Post by JonW »

I have 2 glycol jacketed fermenters and a homemade glycol chiller and use the BCS to control the combo.

I don't suggest using a glycol reservoir in the freezer. The problem with that is that if you need to move the fermenter temperature a large amount for initial cooling, the glycol will raise in temp very fast and will take a considerable amount of time to recover. Being in the freezer, your glycol is really going to end up being air cooled since there is no direct contact of chilling coils to the glycol solution. Using a window AC unit and an ice cooler, I built a glycol chiller that keeps up with both fermenters. The biggest reason it can keep up is that the AC unit evaporator coil is directly submerged into the glycol, so the direct contact efficiently chills the glycol to the required temp.

For my two fermenters, I use a total of 3 temperature probes/outputs. One for each fermenter and one for the glycol bath. When fermenting in the low to mid 60's, I set the glycol bath at 50 degrees. If either fermenter requires cooling, a valve opens that is attached to the glycol pump output. This way either fermenter valve can be opened or both can be opened at the same time. Using ladder logic, when either valve opens, the BCS then turns on the recirculation pump that is located in the glycol bath. If at any time the glycol bath goes over 50 degrees, then a 3rd BCS output triggers the AC unit to turn on and maintain the glycol bath temp.

What size fermenter are you looking at? You could try using the glycol in the freezer, but I've known others that did that and had issues with it keeping up to the chilling needs. Also, why are you looking to do a dual zone fermenter?
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Re: Thinking of getting a Jacketed Fermenter

Post by BrianC »

JonW wrote:I don't suggest using a glycol reservoir in the freezer. The problem with that is that if you need to move the fermenter temperature a large amount for initial cooling, the glycol will raise in temp very fast and will take a considerable amount of time to recover. Being in the freezer, your glycol is really going to end up being air cooled since there is no direct contact of chilling coils to the glycol solution.
I concur with Jon on this. I had a chest freezer with a tub of around 12 gallons of glycol solution in it and it could barely maintain fermentation temps on a 10 gallon batch. In my case, if you have to drop to pitching temps at all you zap the cooling capacity of the glycol solution and while you can maintain temps (barely), you won't be able crash cool. The glycol bath just never fully recovers after the initial cooling.
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Re: Thinking of getting a Jacketed Fermenter

Post by oakbarn »

This is the one I am thinking of ordering:

https://www.brewershardware.com/30-Gall ... entor.html

Although the link says 30 g. it is 42 gallons with 2 "zones". Not a real reason for dual zone, but I have bought a lot from Brewers Hardware and I like their products.

I only intend to maintain a fermentation temp and not use to cool wort. My Setup now uses a duda diesel plate chiller and I can get to 50 degrees if I want with it alone (I have a source of Chilled Water) that is good for one barrel batches. The conical will be in a room that is also Room AC with a Cool Bot. I can also get that down to Lager Fermentation temps but

I do Lagers and Ales at the same time. I want to use the jacketed one for Lagers while using the air cooled conicals (27 gal and 14 Gal Stout Conicals) for Ales. The jacketed one will be a new purchase.

I do lagers now inside a chect freezer using Corny Kegs but want something with less work. (not to mention lifting 5 gallons of beer). I would still have to lift but not as often. Also Cleaning a Conical will be much easier.


I have looked at plans for a DIY Gycol chiller using a de humidifer.

I was thinking that if I had a reservoir in a small fridge or freezer at 50 degrees, I could cycle that to maintain 50 degrees fermentation.

The one thing that has me wondering is the Rest for the Lager. That is one of the reasons I want to go Jacketed. I travel a fair amount and would be nice to automate that Step. I have not set up that with the Corny Keg freezer and may wait for the Jacketed Conical to start getting the Process down.

Due to both advices, I will be looking into a DIY Glycol Chiller. I have a BCS 462 that will be devoted for the Fermentaion Room. I will need to rewire the room so that I can go through SSRs. I will likely have my gylcol in the small freezer or fridge but fed by a DIY Chiller.
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Re: Thinking of getting a Jacketed Fermenter

Post by BrunDog »

Sounds like JonW has the right idea.

I only have a fermentation chamber with a dehumidifier (same idea as AC) chiller, chilling a glycol cell, which is a plastic box I made and is filled with knock-off glycol. That liquid is pumped into the chamber and ran through a radiator to cool the ambient air in the chamber. The whole thing was an exercise in cheapness, and it has worked well so far. In fact, I am able to lager in it, but if I push it, the radiator will ice over and cease cooling the chamber. I only have an STC controller cycling the system. For ales, it switches the chiller, pump, and radiator fan power all at once. For lagers, the pump and fan run continuously, and the STC only switches the chiller.

Someday I will step up to conicals, but for now this works well. My garage (aka brewhouse) is a balmy 90+ degrees / 90+% RH in peak summer, so I think it will be tough to cool a conical to lagering temp in that environment. Not at least without creating a flood of condensating water below.

-BD
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Re: Thinking of getting a Jacketed Fermenter

Post by oakbarn »

Is there a reason to have the Valve Open and Close with Pump controlled by Ladder Logic versus just have the Pump turn On Demand with a Manual valve for the Glycol line? It would seem that a closed system would have a hydraulic lock when the Pump is off.
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Re: Thinking of getting a Jacketed Fermenter

Post by JonW »

In my setup, the reason is that there is more than one fermenter, so either recirc valve could open based on temp control. The ladder logic allows either valve to then command the pump on while the valve is open. You're not going to experience any hydraulic lock.
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Re: Thinking of getting a Jacketed Fermenter

Post by brewmasterbrad »

Just to chime in on a couple things. Jon's setup is pretty amazing and the ladder logic really makes running more than one fermentor work really well with his glycol recirc pump and separate controls for each fermentor. Which brings me to my next point: If you end up doing what Jon is doing, you will just need to configure the ladder logic and processes for the dual zones on those larger conicals. During primary fermentation, you will only want to cool the upper zone of the conical. If you cool the lower zone during active fermentation, you will cause problems with attenuation. Cooling the cone will disrupt the natural convection currents caused be the activity of the yeast and they will flocculate too soon and not finish their work. Only cool the cone during crash cooling and lagering.
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Re: Thinking of getting a Jacketed Fermenter

Post by oakbarn »

I was searching the forum and trying to find out how "tight" a swing could be used in fermentation with hysteresis. Looks like most use 1 degree. I did notice that one thread had 1.5. I notice when you type in a decimal, the box surrounding the Swing turns Red. Is that because only the integer is used or what is the significant about the red box? Is "1" the minimum or the minimum recomended? I do not want to ruin a compressor and I do not know how little a swing is too much :o .
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Re: Thinking of getting a Jacketed Fermenter

Post by brahn »

I haven't tried it with fractions, but it would probably work. You'd have to try it. The red highlight is the browser indicating that you've entered a non-integer, it doesn't necessarily impact what happens with the BCS.

I doubt that you would get any notable improvement in the beer by using a swing of < 1 degree.
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