These are not errors or glitches in the BCS but are the way the Timer works. I found this by trial and error when I made a jump to another state in a Process and the Timer did not start (see 1b) and then decided to see what would happen when I made a logical error with Timers.
FYI:
1. A Timer must be already running for the “Continue from Previous State” to work.
a. If you Click “Continue from Previous State” and the Timer is not running in the Previous State, it will not start. You must start a timer without the “Continue from Previous State” checked.
b. If you Jump to a state where the “Continue from Previous State” is checked and bypass the state where a Timer was started normally, it will not run. Sorta 1a.
WARNING: This is an easy thing to do, and you must be aware that if you do NOT have a Timer already running, it will not start. Jumping to a State will cause Timer issues if you are continuing from a Previous State and the Timer is not already running.
2. The Up/DN have no effect if you are continuing from a Previous State.
a. If you have a Timer Running Up, and you select “Continue from Previous State” and DN, the Timer will continue to count up. This is what I call a Fat Finger Error. You did not mean to Check DN, you just made an error.
b. A more like scenario is that you are counting down and forget to set DN but want to continue counting down using the “Continue from Previous State”. The BCS saves you from yourself.
3. If you “Continue from Previous State”, changing the Init Value (hh:mm:ss) has no effect.
As an Example, you are counting down from 00:10:00 (ten minutes). You have the “Continue from Previous State” selected in the next state and you have a new Init Value (hh:mm:ss) of 00:12:00 (twelve minutes). The new Init Value is ignored. The Timer will continue to count down from where it is in the ten minute countdown.
This is the way you want it to behave and it would be totally illogical to work any other way. If you want to count down from 00:12:00, make sure the “Continue from Previous State” is not checked.
4. The Timer value minimum is zero. It will not count down below zero. The Timer value is either a positive value or zero. It does not go negative and once reaching zero if counting down. It remains zero unless you restart it in a logical manner in another state.
What this means is that when you are counting down, you must set a value to count down from. If you are counting down and “Continue from Previous State” and the Timer is already reached zero, it will stay at zero.
5. If you are counting down, and you have a new Init Value set in a new State, and you bypass that state by Jumping, and the later state jumped to has “Continue from Previous State”, it will continue counting down from the original Init Value.
i. You have State 0, Timer 0 Counting Down from 00:09:00, “Continue from Previous State” Unchecked.
ii. You have State 1 Timer 0 Counting Down from 00:15:00, “Continue from Previous State” Unchecked.
iii. You have State 2 Timer 0 Counting Down from Previous Value, “Continue from Previous State” Checked.
Logically, when you go from State 0 to State 1, the Timer 0 Init Value is reset to 15:00. In State 2, Timer 0 would continue it countdown from whatever is left of the 15 minutes from State 1.
From State 0, you jump to State 2 and bypass State 1. Since State 2 has “Continue from Previous State” checked, it will continue to count down from what is remaining of the nine minutes from State 0, and will not know that you were supposed to be counting down from the remainder 15 minutes.
Timer Function in Process Anomalies with “Continue from Prev
Re: Timer Function in Process Anomalies with “Continue from
I would argue that continue from previous state is working in this this case. The timer is continuing what it was doing in the previous state. In this case, nothing.oakbarn wrote: FYI:
1. A Timer must be already running for the “Continue from Previous State” to work.
a. If you Click “Continue from Previous State” and the Timer is not running in the Previous State, it will not start. You must start a timer without the “Continue from Previous State” checked.
b. If you Jump to a state where the “Continue from Previous State” is checked and bypass the state where a Timer was started normally, it will not run. Sorta 1a.
As you point out, this is all logical. It wouldn't really be continuing from the previous state if you could change it. It might make sense to disable these fields in the UI if "Continue" is checked.oakbarn wrote: 2. The Up/DN have no effect if you are continuing from a Previous State.
a. If you have a Timer Running Up, and you select “Continue from Previous State” and DN, the Timer will continue to count up. This is what I call a Fat Finger Error. You did not mean to Check DN, you just made an error.
b. A more like scenario is that you are counting down and forget to set DN but want to continue counting down using the “Continue from Previous State”. The BCS saves you from yourself.
3. If you “Continue from Previous State”, changing the Init Value (hh:mm:ss) has no effect.
As an Example, you are counting down from 00:10:00 (ten minutes). You have the “Continue from Previous State” selected in the next state and you have a new Init Value (hh:mm:ss) of 00:12:00 (twelve minutes). The new Init Value is ignored. The Timer will continue to count down from where it is in the ten minute countdown.
You seem to be making the assumption that State 1 comes after State 0 and before State 2 in the workflow. This is not a valid assumption. The numbers are simply there as distinct labels and do not in any way represent a flow through the process. Any state transitions are defined by exit conditions, or manual state changes, and can go to any state in any order.oakbarn wrote: 5. If you are counting down, and you have a new Init Value set in a new State, and you bypass that state by Jumping, and the later state jumped to has “Continue from Previous State”, it will continue counting down from the original Init Value.
i. You have State 0, Timer 0 Counting Down from 00:09:00, “Continue from Previous State” Unchecked.
ii. You have State 1 Timer 0 Counting Down from 00:15:00, “Continue from Previous State” Unchecked.
iii. You have State 2 Timer 0 Counting Down from Previous Value, “Continue from Previous State” Checked.
Logically, when you go from State 0 to State 1, the Timer 0 Init Value is reset to 15:00. In State 2, Timer 0 would continue it countdown from whatever is left of the 15 minutes from State 1.
From State 0, you jump to State 2 and bypass State 1. Since State 2 has “Continue from Previous State” checked, it will continue to count down from what is remaining of the nine minutes from State 0, and will not know that you were supposed to be counting down from the remainder 15 minutes.
Re: Timer Function in Process Anomalies with “Continue from
The way I started was:
These are not errors or glitches in the BCS but are the way the Timer works.
While State 1 does not necessarilly follow State 0 (I have some that are an endless loop), many of my Processes follow the set order as it is easier for me to think of them as progressive steps. What happened is that I had set a Boil Timer to start at a certain State, and then continue in the next State "Boil". My Hop Additiona were set on the Boil Timer. I can't remember why I did it, but I jumped to the "Boil" State and the Boil Timer did not start. I manually timed my boil (Old School) and went back to figure out why the Boil Timer did not Start.
Regardless of State Order, if a Timer is not running and you jump to a State where you were going to continue the timer from a Previous state, it will not be running or start. It does turn Black on the Main Control Panel like it is asserted, but it is not counting.
As long as I was figuring out what a Timer did or did not do, I played with it to see what would happen if I was making errors in the Process Editor.
I think the Timers work great and this was not a complaint, but an observation.
All the Wiki says is:
"Timers Used in this State
Update the names of the timers. Timers can count up or count down. In order for a timer to be active, it must be enabled for use in the current state." and nothing about continuing from a Previous State.
These are not errors or glitches in the BCS but are the way the Timer works.
While State 1 does not necessarilly follow State 0 (I have some that are an endless loop), many of my Processes follow the set order as it is easier for me to think of them as progressive steps. What happened is that I had set a Boil Timer to start at a certain State, and then continue in the next State "Boil". My Hop Additiona were set on the Boil Timer. I can't remember why I did it, but I jumped to the "Boil" State and the Boil Timer did not start. I manually timed my boil (Old School) and went back to figure out why the Boil Timer did not Start.
Regardless of State Order, if a Timer is not running and you jump to a State where you were going to continue the timer from a Previous state, it will not be running or start. It does turn Black on the Main Control Panel like it is asserted, but it is not counting.
As long as I was figuring out what a Timer did or did not do, I played with it to see what would happen if I was making errors in the Process Editor.
I think the Timers work great and this was not a complaint, but an observation.
All the Wiki says is:
"Timers Used in this State
Update the names of the timers. Timers can count up or count down. In order for a timer to be active, it must be enabled for use in the current state." and nothing about continuing from a Previous State.