BCS 4.0 - Web Buttons?

Describe your system and processes, and post your config file.
gidi-up
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BCS 4.0 - Web Buttons?

Post by gidi-up »

I have upgraded to 4.0 beta 3 (Really nice by the way, thks.) from 3.7 and I am not seeing Web Buttons or any type of manual User input.

In 3.7 I have a boil process:
1) On process start it starts a 15 min count down timer.
2) When timer =< 0, that process exits to process --> Hop Additions
3) The Hop Additions process will just wait until I press the Web Button "Hops Added", then when pressed = ON, then that goes back to the Boil Process and so on.

Now I suppose I could just have the timer in the Boil process on expire trigger a external alarm but not seeing a way to stop the alarm manually OR a way to reset the timer.


Are these not there in 4.0?
Still to come in Beta 4, 5, 6 or ?
OR they have been replaced with another function I am not seeing after hours of trying to find?


Then any projected time frame on the return of HMI?

Thanks

Jerry
JonW
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Re: BCS 4.0 - Web Buttons?

Post by JonW »

Web buttons only function was to facilitate a state jump. Now, because all states are listed on the screen for a running process, you simply select the required state instead of using the Win button. Less programming and more direct.

Additionally, look at the new "Next State" options for exit conditions. You now have the ability to do a "Wait for Input" when your timer has expired.

Instead of jumping back and forth between the boil process and the hop addition process, I use two processes that run simultaneously to track the boil and the hops. In my boil process, I click on the "Boil Timer Start" state and that triggers the hop addition process and timers to spawn. The boil process then proceeds through a few different states for no-recirc, recirc, chiller sanitize etc, all the while the hop process is tracking hop additions.
Boil_Hop_Timers.PNG
Boil_Hop_Timers.PNG (13.61 KiB) Viewed 6257 times
gidi-up
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Re: BCS 4.0 - Web Buttons?

Post by gidi-up »

That is a good idea but guess in my situation I should have mentioned I have 3 boil Kettles that will be going all at the same time, so would be really nice to have the Hop additions running in a state within the process and not a separate process, as using all the other Processes for other functions.

But will see if I can get my head wrapped around this new way.


Thanks

Jerry
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Re: BCS 4.0 - Web Buttons?

Post by brewstarke »

I think I have my setup the way you want (only have one BK though).
It's essentially the same idea that JonW uses but combines the boil process into the timers. My system is propane though too so it's simple- but I imagine you would just add output control to all the states if it were electric or more complex...
I have it laid out here: http://forum.embeddedcc.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2571
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Re: BCS 4.0 - Web Buttons?

Post by gidi-up »

Thanks all on the suggestions but went a bit more simple.

So I was so hung up on the Web Buttons of ole that it was a difficult switch but manged to somewhat dump those brain cells...

I decided to not run a separate Hop process as suggested due to I want an external alarm/light to go off every time hops need to added , so every XX min in my Main boil process the hop timer expire calls State = Hop Addition, that state has my ext Alarm output on, then after adding Hops I just click back on the Boiling state, that was difficult , then this just repeats until the total boil timer expires :lol:


I did like the separate Hop Process but could not trigger a Output based on time within a state, so every xx min sound alarm. Which I could call a State = Alarm but I would have to remember which Hop Addition time state to go back to (Which Web Buttons could be programmed to jump to the next state or back where you came from the state you are in.)

Still like the Web Buttons they gave the ability to jump back to where you came from or jump forward without remembering and when you are running 3 boil kettles at the same time keeping track of all that will not happen...


Thanks

Jerry
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Re: BCS 4.0 - Web Buttons?

Post by JonW »

I use an external alarm for each state change on my hop schedule/process. You can set it for a continuous alarm that requires you to press a button to cancel it, or do a short alarm which sounds for a couple of seconds and then stops.

If you are using the alarm on a physical BCS output, you don't need a state that turns that output on. You should use the system setting "Alarm to Register 10". You can then add a single line entry in ladder logic that asserts the alarm output every time register 10 is asserted. You then use the "Alarm when exiting state" option in Process/state configuration to tell the alarm when to trigger and this triggers your external alarm.
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Re: BCS 4.0 - Web Buttons?

Post by gidi-up »

I seen that 'Alarm to register 10' but as mentioned that is a system setting, so if you have 3,4,5 process running at the same time and each contains Alarms, all processes will alarm to Reg 10, so hard to tell which process is triggering the alarm unless you are sitting in front of the screen?

So I am going to have a panel on the wall marked for each piece of equipment that will have a lighted alarm, so from a distance I can see what needs to be done, just trying to multitask around the Brewery or when having others Brew a good visual helps.



I am thinking it would be nice to have just "Conditions" in a State, so if a timer expires, trigger output OR if a DIN state changes trigger Output or what is required, not really calling a State change.

Example, I am going to have a Wort Grant that will have low & high floats, so Condition Din-5 = ON (High Level) , trigger Output=7 External alarm "Run or you will have a mess in 1 min", then when DIN-5 = OFF stop the alarm, then on Low you can shut off the process pump or turn it on. Which as it is right now appears you have to have a State just to watch Din-5 and Din-3 then only on Exit can something be done, so to stay within in a running state would make things a little better I am thinking.


Thanks for your time on this.


Jerry
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Re: BCS 4.0 - Web Buttons?

Post by brahn »

In your example I think the easiest solution is to use ladder logic to turn output 7 on whenever din 5 is triggered.
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Re: BCS 4.0 - Web Buttons?

Post by gidi-up »

Yea was thinking of that but really would be nice to just have "Conditions" within the state due to Ladder Logic just happens in the back ground when any states is running.

So my thoughts are what if you have no Process running or states Active OR even Process 1 running does ladder logic still function?

Example, you are working on say your HLT, while you have a tank cleaning process, and in your HLT you hit the Float for Full and that triggers din 5 and your Elements kick on, is that possible, sorry have not tested that.

To me what happens in that state/process only happens when that is running OR say I want to use DIN 5 in multiple processes but perform a different function. Which I will be using like DIN 5 (HLT FULL float) in a couple process, so 1 for my HLT fill and heat process BUT again on Heat Exchange process, so will re-circ my hot water back to HLT but if HLT is full well need to stop and kick on by pass to drain.


Jerry
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Re: BCS 4.0 - Web Buttons?

Post by JonW »

Ladder logic is always running. It works even when processes are not running. However, you can add a process conditional to the ladder logic so that it only fires when a specific process is running in addition to the input trigger.
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