bcs usage clarification

[mellman]

So i've been in the "planning" stages of my build for probably 2 years now. Work, getting married, and other commitments have prolonged this research period but i'm finally ready to make the jump. I'm pretty sure I need the BCS 462 for the additional temp control but want to make sure i'm going down the right path.

the BCS 462 has 8 temp inputs - 6 of which can communicate with 6 outputs. The BCS 460 has 4 temp inputs, and can therefore temp control 4 outputs.

Brewery:

1 Temp Probe in BK - controlling 2x 5kw elements (takes up 1 of each in/out)
1 Temp Probe in MLT - controlling 1 pump for HERMS recirc (takes up 1 of each in/out)
1 Temp Probe in HLT - controlling 2x 5kw elements (takes up 1 of each in/out)

Fermentation:
1 Temp probe in glycol bath - controlling glycol chiller/recirc pump
1 temp probe in Ferm1 - controlling ball valve on glycol trunk line / turning on pump
1 temp probe in Ferm2 - controlling ball valve on glycol trunk line / turning on pump

At this point I've maxed out a BCS462 temp in/out is that correct? At some point I may add a 3rd fermenter...so i'd need to buy another BCS? I had also considered using the BCS for controlling my smoker; but it doesn't seem like i'll have enough temp controllable outputs for that.

This also assumes chilling only. How then with the same temp probe can I trigger a separate process for heating vs cooling?

I guess an additional question would be...is v4.0 going to change anything on the hardware or the # of temp controlled outputs?
Cheers,
-matt

[brewstarke]

The 460 actually has 6 outputs- and you can 'associate' any or all (or none) outputs to any temp probe- so you can have multiple outputs controlled by one temp probe.
I use the 460 with 1 HLT temp, 1 temp probe in the mash OUT line, 1 after the heat exchanger and the last one in the boil kettle. The only thing I'm controlling is a pair of pumps to recir wort and hot liquor. Fairly basic but I don't use all the outputs- if you're going electric you could use seperate outputs for each element to have the ability to use one or both depending on how much energy you need to apply to get to your temps. I've seen systems that use this approach- you can still probably get away with the 460.
For my fermentation I reload the BCS with my fermentation system settings and processes- sort of a pain but not a killer- the only issue I run into is if I want to brew while I'm still fermenting, but that's very rare on my schedule. I've been thinking of adding another 460 for a permanent fermentation setup. Since I brew outside and ferment down in the basement having a 462 wouldn't save me from either running wires to probes/outs/ins or disconnecting the BCS and moving it for brewing.
JonW mentions a smoker in his system- check out the homebrewtalk forums for his build- it will inspire for sure-

Oh and for my fermenter is in a small fridge with a fermwrap for heat- I have one temp probe in the fermenter which tells 2 outputs to heat or cool. I think it wouldn't be much different for a glycol system- though I have not experience with it.

[brahn]

In 4.0 the first 8 outputs can be controlled by a temp probe on a BCS-462.

In 3.x you can use a process with 2 states to implement your own hysteresis control based on temp probe 6 or 7. It's not as simple, but it should work if you've got a process available.

[mellman]

In 4.0 the first 8 outputs can be controlled by a temp probe on a BCS-462.

In 3.x you can use a process with 2 states to implement your own hysteresis control based on temp probe 6 or 7. It's not as simple, but it should work if you've got a process available.

So even with that in mind; i can't accomplish both heating and cooling on my fermenters with the BCS AND control my brewery?

[brahn]

I guess it depends on how you intend to do the heating. If you just need one output per fermenter for a heating element, you could make it work.

In 4.0, it would be easy, just tell the temp probe to control two outputs, one in heat mode and one in cool mode.

In 3.x, you'd have use a process for each fermenter, but the process could do both heating and cooling.

On the 462 I'd say you're more limited by the number of temp probes than by the outputs, as long as you've got a process free that you could use to manage the fermenter.

[mellman]

I guess it depends on how you intend to do the heating. If you just need one output per fermenter for a heating element, you could make it work.

In 4.0, it would be easy, just tell the temp probe to control two outputs, one in heat mode and one in cool mode.

In 3.x, you'd have use a process for each fermenter, but the process could do both heating and cooling.

On the 462 I'd say you're more limited by the number of temp probes than by the outputs, as long as you've got a process free that you could use to manage the fermenter.

hm ok; so how many outputs can be controlled by a temp probe then? Perhaps my questions are coming from a misunderstanding of the wiki and how the BCS can interact with outputs.

Six of the outputs can be controlled by PWM, differentially by a temperature input, or under complete PID control. The remaining 12 outputs provide on/off control.

Reading that implies that only 6 outputs can be controlled by a temp input. Are the on/off control inputs able to be interacted with based on temps read from temp probes?

I have an additional question to the one I started with I'll go ahead with as well...

My brewery and fermentation take place in the same room; that said is it possible to have my BCS in my main control unit, and use some cat5 or similar to remotely mount the "fermentation panel"? I.E. BCS + all the main power outlets in one enclosure. Use some cat5(1 or many strands) to connect the main panel to the fermentation panel. relays, and separate power source can be in the 2nd panel, as well as temp probes. but the control and temp signals (low voltage) be sent back over to the main unit.

Thanks for all the response and help!

[brahn]

Using the automated control methods for the outputs, you can control 6 outputs (8 in 4.0) based on a temp input. You can attach multiple outputs to one input.

To go beyond that, you can create a process with two states. For example: State 1 forces output 15 OFF and has an exit condition of temp0 <= 63F that sends you to state 2. State 2 forces output 15 ON and has an exit condition of temp0 >= 65F. Assuming output 15 somehow heats up whatever temp0 is reading, this will keep temp0 more or less between 63 and 65F.

There are other better qualified people here to answer your question about the wiring. I'll leave that to them.

[mellman]

ahh right on - thank you brahn! I really appreciate the clarification.

[oakbarn]

Slightly confused. There are six PWM outs that are suitable for Heating element control. All other OUTS including those on an expansion board can be controlled by hysteresis. So any temp probe on a 462 could be associated with any out (including the PWM ones) as long as hysteresis was the control method?

[JonW]

Slightly confused. There are six PWM outs that are suitable for Heating element control. All other OUTS including those on an expansion board can be controlled by hysteresis. So any temp probe on a 462 could be associated with any out (including the PWM ones) as long as hysteresis was the control method?

NOT TRUE! Only the first 6 outputs can be directly linked to a temp probe for hysteresis or PWM control. However, you can use any temp probe value within the exit conditions to create your own on/off logic for the other 2 probes. Outputs on the expansion boards also cannot be controlled by hysteresis.