New User Questions

[jimg@gsp]

I have searched through the site and the forum and have attempted to answer these on my own but because of my inexperience I cannot definitively arrive at viable answers.

Can someone please explain and give simple examples of when and how the following conditions might be used?

1,) What is the best method of maintaining a specific temperature using electric elements?
Do I simply set an element output to a PID controlled temperature and have no Exit Condition defined?

2.) I do not fully understand user input. It appears that the use of the Web Input Buttons is designed for this purpose.

3.) I do not fully understand the function of output Directly OFF/ON.

4.) Looking through the forum, I have noticed a number of references to intentional process delays in the form of “wait 5 seconds”, or wait for user input”.

I appreciate your time and consideration for new user support.

Jim

[brahn]

1,) What is the best method of maintaining a specific temperature using electric elements?
Do I simply set an element output to a PID controlled temperature and have no Exit Condition defined?

Yes.

2.) I do not fully understand user input. It appears that the use of the Web Input Buttons is designed for this purpose.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. Yes, in 3.x Web Inputs can be used to manually switch states. In the new 4.0 firmware the Web Inputs are gone, but it is very easy to accomplish the same thing by just clicking on the state you want to switch to.

3.) I do not fully understand the function of output Directly OFF/ON.

It turns an output ON or OFF. For instance, I use natural gas for my burners and during the boil I have the BK burner set to Direct ON because I want it on and don't care what the temperature is.

4.) Looking through the forum, I have noticed a number of references to intentional process delays in the form of “wait 5 seconds”, or wait for user input”.

You can create a state that will wait 5 seconds if you want and there may be good reason for this depending on your system. The "Wait for User Input" is a new feature in 4.0 that lets you notify someone looking at the screen that it's waiting for them to do something, like manually transition to the next state.

[jimg@gsp]

Thanks for the quick reply!

1.) Got it.

2.) Can you tell me how you set up your Exit Condition to accommodate a Web Input (Condition, Value, On Exit)?

3.) If I understand this correctly, the output is simply switched ON or OFF when the process is initiated.

4.) To wait 5 seconds, I could run a timer for 5 seconds and then exit to another state to do something else.

I decided to begin on v3.7.1. Would you suggest I start with v4?

Thanks

[brewstarke]

I'll give you a few examples, they helped me when I first started.
2) My pre-4.0 setup had a state setup just before my mashout would start which was a "check mash conversion" state. It essentially paused my process so that I could check that I have full conversion and get some hoses set up for transfer to my kettle and setup my sparge line etc. When I was all set I'd exit that state by touching a web-input and enter into my mashout state. As brahn points out this feature has effectively been replaced by the new UI in 4.0. For this example in the new version I've dropped that 'check mash' state and now have a 'Wait for User Input' to trigger when my last mash step is complete. Now that state blinks on the screen when I need to check things out and then instead of touching the web input I just hit the next step button; in this example my "mash out"
3) yes. For my sparge setup I have a float switch that is run into the BCS as a DIN. Then a sparge process that basically has two states. A "run" and a "wait" step for the sparge water pump. When in the 'run' state the pump output is ON and is filling the mash tun until the float triggers the DIN to exit the 'run' state and go to the 'wait' state where the pump output is in the OFF position. I should mention too that I also have another exit condition setup on both states which exits to a 'Check sparge' state when my sparge timer hits a certain value.
4) yeah- I think a common usage is having glow ignitors turn on prior to the gas valves firing.

I think programming in 4.0 is SOO much easier. No worries about saving and the layout just seems cleaner to me. There may be some fuzziness since the documentation is not update to 4.0 but for the most part I think you should be able to translate it.
What I did (about 100 different times) was write our the brewing process, in chronological order, that I was used to and then figure out where and how to add in the BCS control. And another tip, don't over do it right away with the automation. Start with the basics like maintaining a temp and running a timer. I was so excited about the prospects of what the BCS was capable of doing I added in a bunch of unneeded complexities which kept bitting my in the ass when I was brewing. I took a step back and simplified the whole process and was much happier. I'm slowly adding back some of the automation and control now as I learn the system etc.
Good Luck--

[jimg@gsp]

Thanks for taking the time with these explanations. Much appreciated.

I will incorporate what I have learned here into my processes and test.

I have learned to start out as simplistic as possible. I have a couple of decades of software development and MS VB programing experience. I thought that this would be a little easier to pick up than it is, but my unfamilurarity with the processes and methodologies are evident.

Thanks again for your willingness to help.

[brahn]

4) yeah- I think a common usage is having glow ignitors turn on prior to the gas valves firing.

In this particular case you should be able to do that with just the igniter settings. But I'm sure there are cases where you might want something like this.

I think programming in 4.0 is SOO much easier.

Glad to hear that!

I was so excited about the prospects of what the BCS was capable of doing I added in a bunch of unneeded complexities which kept bitting my in the ass when I was brewing. I took a step back and simplified the whole process and was much happier. I'm slowly adding back some of the automation and control now as I learn the system etc.
Good Luck--

I very much agree with this. I've had similar issues. It's easy enough to start simple and add more later.

[mdunlop]

I'll give you a few examples, they helped me when I first started.
2) My pre-4.0 setup had a state setup just before my mashout would start which was a "check mash conversion" state. It essentially paused my process so that I could check that I have full conversion and get some hoses set up for transfer to my kettle and setup my sparge line etc. When I was all set I'd exit that state by touching a web-input and enter into my mashout state. As brahn points out this feature has effectively been replaced by the new UI in 4.0. For this example in the new version I've dropped that 'check mash' state and now have a 'Wait for User Input' to trigger when my last mash step is complete. Now that state blinks on the screen when I need to check things out and then instead of touching the web input I just hit the next step button; in this example my "mash out"
3) yes. For my sparge setup I have a float switch that is run into the BCS as a DIN. Then a sparge process that basically has two states. A "run" and a "wait" step for the sparge water pump. When in the 'run' state the pump output is ON and is filling the mash tun until the float triggers the DIN to exit the 'run' state and go to the 'wait' state where the pump output is in the OFF position. I should mention too that I also have another exit condition setup on both states which exits to a 'Check sparge' state when my sparge timer hits a certain value.
4) yeah- I think a common usage is having glow ignitors turn on prior to the gas valves firing.
I think programming in 4.0 is SOO much easier. No worries about saving and the layout just seems cleaner to me. There may be some fuzziness since the documentation is not update to 4.0 but for the most part I think you should be able to translate it.
What I did (about 100 different times) was write our the brewing process, in chronological order, that I was used to and then figure out where and how to add in the BCS control. And another tip, don't over do it right away with the automation. Start with the basics like maintaining a temp and running a timer. I was so excited about the prospects of what the BCS was capable of doing I added in a bunch of unneeded complexities which kept bitting my in the ass when I was brewing. I took a step back and simplified the whole process and was much happier. I'm slowly adding back some of the automation and control now as I learn the system etc.
Good Luck--

Is 4.0 available??? All I see on the site is 3.7.1

[JonW]

Is 4.0 available??? All I see on the site is 3.7.1

The download links are in the forum, not the wiki: http://forum.embeddedcc.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2666